Discussion:
OT: Statistics for Jim
(too old to reply)
Fred
2006-08-04 07:40:39 UTC
Permalink
According to Haaretz, Ynet, Jerusalem post and other news,
since the start of the conflict,
IDF has knocked out a total of;
0 Hezbullah fighter aircraft
0 Hezbullah anti-aircraft installations
0 Hezbullah war ships
0 Hezbullah tanks
0 Hezbullah armoured personel carriers
10 Hezbullah rocket launchers
200 - 300 Hezbullah fighters

Fred
Pat P
2006-08-04 09:13:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
According to Haaretz, Ynet, Jerusalem post and other news,
since the start of the conflict,
IDF has knocked out a total of;
0 Hezbullah fighter aircraft
0 Hezbullah anti-aircraft installations
0 Hezbullah war ships
0 Hezbullah tanks
0 Hezbullah armoured personel carriers
10 Hezbullah rocket launchers
200 - 300 Hezbullah fighters
Fred
Anf just HOW many civilians and children?

Pat P
'Nez
2006-08-04 11:26:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat P
Anf just HOW many civilians and children?
Pat P
For some reason, they don't bother to count the innocent (otherwise
known as "collateral damage). Frances
'Nez
2006-08-04 11:26:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat P
Anf just HOW many civilians and children?
Pat P
For some reason, they don't bother to count the innocent (otherwise
known as "collateral damage). Frances
JuLee
2006-08-05 08:29:25 UTC
Permalink
Way way too many innocents, young and old, male and female, on both
sides of the border.
Way way too many families destroyed on both sides of the border
Way way too many dreams shattered on both sides of the border
Way way too many nightmares plague the innocents on both sides of the
border.
Way way too many lives destroyed though the owners are allowed to exist
in the limbo that is a war zone.

It is always so in a war. Those who just want to live their quiet lives
are the ones who lose the most it seems. Those who push for the fight
seem to be the ones comfortably far away from the exploding missiles.

Nobody really wins, and everyone loses in a war. When will we find a
different way to resolve conflicts?

Julie
Central Texas
http://astitchingstash.com/
And just HOW many civilians and children?
Pat P
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-04 13:33:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
According to Haaretz, Ynet, Jerusalem post and other news,
since the start of the conflict,
IDF has knocked out a total of;
0 Hezbullah fighter aircraft
0 Hezbullah anti-aircraft installations
0 Hezbullah war ships
0 Hezbullah tanks
0 Hezbullah armoured personel carriers
10 Hezbullah rocket launchers
200 - 300 Hezbullah fighters
Fred
Let me add to the list. The IDF has not damaged the
The Mayflower Curling Club
The CN Tower
The Saddledome
all of which are about as relevant as what is mentioned above.
I read many years ago that the Israelis understand Lex Talonis, the
law of the jungle. Not an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. If I
am stronger than you, and you break one of my arms, I break both of your
arms, and then break a leg, and put out one of your eyes for good measure.
If you want to find out what the IDF did to the armies of Egypt, Syria
and Jordan in the 1940's to 70's, read Haim Hertzog's "War of Atonement".
The IDF smashed and humiliated these countries militarily, so much so
that they signed peace accords, very much on Israeli terms. Israel
maintains control of the Golan Heights, and a large chunk of Syrian
territory. These three Arab nations do not want to tangle with the IDF;
they have had enough punishment.
Israel has done horrific damage to many parts of Lebanon, and has set
it's economy back enormously. The tourist trade, for example, has been
eliminated for what may well be a decade or more. Some of Lebanon's
finest beaches are an ecological disaster. What I suspect Israel hopes to
achieve is to teach Lebanon what Egypt, Jordan and Syria have already
learned. Maybe Israel can get a peace deal with Lebanon on Israeli terms,
and have no terrorist threat to Haifa and the whole of northern Israel for
many years to come.
Karen C - California
2006-08-04 15:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by F.James Cripwell
What I suspect Israel hopes to
achieve is to teach Lebanon what Egypt, Jordan and Syria have already
learned.
As I understand it, the problem is not Lebanon as a whole, but the
radicals of Hezbollah, which is a whole 'nother entity.

It's the same old story we learned in the schoolyard -- you need to
stand up to the bullies, or they will continue to bully you. But once
you whomp their butt, they think twice about being humiliated again.

Hezbollah has sworn to bomb Israel off the map. There is no compromise
possible where one side thinks the other has no right to exist. I don't
know what their problem is, and I don't care ... grown-ups learn to
peacefully co-exist with the neighbors, even if you hate their guts.
--
Karen C - California

Finished 7/4/06 - needlepoint calendar canvas for August
WIP: Getting all the UFOs done, July birthstone, Flowers of
Hawaii (Jeanette Crews) for ME!!!, Farmers Market (TIAG#8)
Stitchalong: FarmersMarketSAL-***@yahoogroups.com
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel
LTR: Fireman's Prayer (#2), Amid Amish Life, Angel of Autumn,
Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe

www.CFSfacts.org where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf

See my designs exclusively at www.TyWolfeDesigns.com

Editor/Proofreader www.KarenMCampbell.com
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-04 16:49:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karen C - California
As I understand it, the problem is not Lebanon as a whole, but the
radicals of Hezbollah, which is a whole 'nother entity.
It's the same old story we learned in the schoolyard -- you need to
stand up to the bullies, or they will continue to bully you. But once
you whomp their butt, they think twice about being humiliated again.
Hezbollah has sworn to bomb Israel off the map. There is no compromise
possible where one side thinks the other has no right to exist. I don't
know what their problem is, and I don't care ... grown-ups learn to
peacefully co-exist with the neighbors, even if you hate their guts.
Karen C - California
You are on the right track, IMHO. Lebanon allowed Hezbollah to
operate from it's territory. Hence, Israel wants to ensure this will not
happen in the future.
Golda Meir, Israel's female Prime Minister, opined that peace will not
come to the Middle East "until Arab mothers love their sons more than they
hate us". My guess is that she was right.
lucretia borgia
2006-08-04 17:55:46 UTC
Permalink
***@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (F.James Cripwell),in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by Karen C - California
As I understand it, the problem is not Lebanon as a whole, but the
radicals of Hezbollah, which is a whole 'nother entity.
It's the same old story we learned in the schoolyard -- you need to
stand up to the bullies, or they will continue to bully you. But once
you whomp their butt, they think twice about being humiliated again.
Hezbollah has sworn to bomb Israel off the map. There is no compromise
possible where one side thinks the other has no right to exist. I don't
know what their problem is, and I don't care ... grown-ups learn to
peacefully co-exist with the neighbors, even if you hate their guts.
Karen C - California
You are on the right track, IMHO. Lebanon allowed Hezbollah to
operate from it's territory. Hence, Israel wants to ensure this will not
happen in the future.
Golda Meir, Israel's female Prime Minister, opined that peace will not
come to the Middle East "until Arab mothers love their sons more than they
hate us". My guess is that she was right.
Interesting that you feel you need to point out Golda Meir was a
female Prime Minister. Do you suppose as females (most of us) we
don't know which countries have, or have had, females in charge?

Think about all the ones that have and the very few that haven't -
tells one quite a bit.
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-04 20:26:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by lucretia borgia
Interesting that you feel you need to point out Golda Meir was a
female Prime Minister. Do you suppose as females (most of us) we
don't know which countries have, or have had, females in charge?
Think about all the ones that have and the very few that haven't -
tells one quite a bit.
It never fails to amaze me that no matter how careful one is, it is
*always* possible for someone to misinterpret what one writes. Precisely
why I included the word "female" I have no idea, but it was meant as a
compliment. Oh well!!! May I add how pleased I am that the Supreme Court
of Canada has four, out of nine, females, including the Chief Justice. We
have lived in a male dominated society for too many years, and it is about
time we realized that having equal numbers of male and females running
organizations leads to much better operations. The pendulum needs to
swing a lot further in favour of females in charge, IMHO.
lucretia borgia
2006-08-04 20:29:30 UTC
Permalink
***@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (F.James Cripwell),in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by lucretia borgia
Interesting that you feel you need to point out Golda Meir was a
female Prime Minister. Do you suppose as females (most of us) we
don't know which countries have, or have had, females in charge?
Think about all the ones that have and the very few that haven't -
tells one quite a bit.
It never fails to amaze me that no matter how careful one is, it is
*always* possible for someone to misinterpret what one writes. Precisely
why I included the word "female" I have no idea,
Neither have I, it was an unnecessary, gratuitous word.


but it was meant as a
Post by F.James Cripwell
compliment. Oh well!!! May I add how pleased I am that the Supreme Court
of Canada has four, out of nine, females, including the Chief Justice. We
have lived in a male dominated society for too many years, and it is about
time we realized that having equal numbers of male and females running
organizations leads to much better operations. The pendulum needs to
swing a lot further in favour of females in charge, IMHO.
Pat P
2006-08-04 20:45:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by lucretia borgia
Interesting that you feel you need to point out Golda Meir was a
female Prime Minister. Do you suppose as females (most of us) we
don't know which countries have, or have had, females in charge?
Think about all the ones that have and the very few that haven't -
tells one quite a bit.
It never fails to amaze me that no matter how careful one is, it is
*always* possible for someone to misinterpret what one writes. Precisely
why I included the word "female" I have no idea, but it was meant as a
compliment. Oh well!!! May I add how pleased I am that the Supreme Court
of Canada has four, out of nine, females, including the Chief Justice. We
have lived in a male dominated society for too many years, and it is about
time we realized that having equal numbers of male and females running
organizations leads to much better operations. The pendulum needs to
swing a lot further in favour of females in charge, IMHO.
Just one proviso, Jim - FEMALES as opposed to feminists!

Pat P
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-05 07:08:36 UTC
Permalink
By the way the Late Golda Meir had a reputation of being `The Man` in
her all male cabinet.
mirjam , saturday morning with `falls` in Haifa Area before 9 o`clock
Karen C - California
2006-08-05 06:03:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by F.James Cripwell
peace will not
come to the Middle East "until Arab mothers love their sons more than they
hate us". My guess is that she was right.
I think it's usually the men who teach hatred. What we need is for more
Arab mothers to apply their cooking spoons to tiny hineys when their
boys spout hatred, and teach them instead whatever is the Koran's
equivalent to "love thy neighbor as thyself".
--
Karen C - California

Finished 7/4/06 - needlepoint calendar canvas for August
WIP: Getting all the UFOs done, July birthstone, Flowers of
Hawaii (Jeanette Crews) for ME!!!, Farmers Market (TIAG#8)
Stitchalong: FarmersMarketSAL-***@yahoogroups.com
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel
LTR: Fireman's Prayer (#2), Amid Amish Life, Angel of Autumn,
Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe

www.CFSfacts.org where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf

See my designs exclusively at www.TyWolfeDesigns.com

Editor/Proofreader www.KarenMCampbell.com
JuLee
2006-08-05 08:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karen C - California
I think it's usually the men who teach hatred. What we need is for more
Arab mothers to apply their cooking spoons to tiny hineys when their
boys spout hatred, and teach them instead whatever is the Koran's
equivalent to "love thy neighbor as thyself".
Hmmm.. not sure on this one. In some of the Arab circles I have heard
of, dear mother might find herself in some serious trouble for laying a
hand on a male child. For generations, these women were not permitted
to be educated - their sole purpose was to breed male heirs. I do so
agree with you in principle, Karen.. just not sure if the women would
be able to do that in a fanatical Islamic community (fanatical only
because the Koran really doesn't condone killing of anyone).

Julie
Central Texas
http://astitchingstash.com/
lucretia borgia
2006-08-05 11:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Karen C - California <***@aol.com>,in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by Karen C - California
Post by F.James Cripwell
peace will not
come to the Middle East "until Arab mothers love their sons more than they
hate us". My guess is that she was right.
\
That in spite of the fact Israeli mothers allow their children to go
off and serve in the army, but that would be teaching love ?
Post by Karen C - California
I think it's usually the men who teach hatred. What we need is for more
Arab mothers to apply their cooking spoons to tiny hineys when their
boys spout hatred, and teach them instead whatever is the Koran's
equivalent to "love thy neighbor as thyself".
That's difficult. First you hit the kid, then you tell it to be
non-violent.

I think the clear answer is that Muslims have to be MADE to be
Christians, then all the bible thumpers will be happy!
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-05 13:25:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by lucretia borgia
That in spite of the fact Israeli mothers allow their children to go
off and serve in the army, but that would be teaching love ?
Mirjam can correct me if I am wrong, but pretty well all Israeli
citizens are subject to compulsory military training. I believe certain
religious groups are exempt. In effect, the whole Israeli nation is part
of the armed forces.
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-05 15:02:25 UTC
Permalink
Yes James you are correct, by law every citizen male and female who
reach the age of 18 should enlist in the IDF . with the exceprtion of
some religious groups and some minorities. By the way many of those
who aren`t compelled to serve choose to do some voluntary service
[from teaching to hospital work etc.].

I didn`t answer Lucretia`s remark , since i Know that our service is
meant for deffence .
mirjam
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by lucretia borgia
That in spite of the fact Israeli mothers allow their children to go
off and serve in the army, but that would be teaching love ?
Mirjam can correct me if I am wrong, but pretty well all Israeli
citizens are subject to compulsory military training. I believe certain
religious groups are exempt. In effect, the whole Israeli nation is part
of the armed forces.
lucretia borgia
2006-08-05 14:27:57 UTC
Permalink
***@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (F.James Cripwell),in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by lucretia borgia
That in spite of the fact Israeli mothers allow their children to go
off and serve in the army, but that would be teaching love ?
Mirjam can correct me if I am wrong, but pretty well all Israeli
citizens are subject to compulsory military training. I believe certain
religious groups are exempt. In effect, the whole Israeli nation is part
of the armed forces.
Yes of course they have National Service but I have never seen the
mothers rising up and saying "We don't want our sons and daughters
going off into the army"
Karen C - California
2006-08-05 15:08:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by F.James Cripwell
In effect, the whole Israeli nation is part
Post by F.James Cripwell
of the armed forces.
Yes of course they have National Service but I have never seen the
mothers rising up and saying "We don't want our sons and daughters
going off into the army"
Well, if your country were attacked from all sides on the very first day
of its existence, and was attacked regularly since, you would understand
the necessity of having a large permanent army able to respond and see
it as your sons and daughters protecting you personally.

The situation there is quite different than it is here, where neither
the US nor Canada has had enemy troops within their borders in eons. We
send *our* kids off to protect other people, which doesn't seem to
benefit their own mothers one iota.
--
Karen C - California

Finished 7/4/06 - needlepoint calendar canvas for August
WIP: Getting all the UFOs done, July birthstone, Flowers of
Hawaii (Jeanette Crews) for ME!!!, Farmers Market (TIAG#8)
Stitchalong: FarmersMarketSAL-***@yahoogroups.com
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel
LTR: Fireman's Prayer (#2), Amid Amish Life, Angel of Autumn,
Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe

www.CFSfacts.org where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf

See my designs exclusively at www.TyWolfeDesigns.com

Editor/Proofreader www.KarenMCampbell.com
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-05 18:25:22 UTC
Permalink
You would see such mothers in your country if the choise was to be
slaughtered ,
mirjam
Post by lucretia borgia
Yes of course they have National Service but I have never seen the
mothers rising up and saying "We don't want our sons and daughters
going off into the army"
Dr. Brat
2006-08-05 16:50:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by F.James Cripwell
Israel has done horrific damage to many parts of Lebanon, and has set
it's economy back enormously. The tourist trade, for example, has been
eliminated for what may well be a decade or more. Some of Lebanon's
finest beaches are an ecological disaster. What I suspect Israel hopes to
achieve is to teach Lebanon what Egypt, Jordan and Syria have already
learned. Maybe Israel can get a peace deal with Lebanon on Israeli terms,
and have no terrorist threat to Haifa and the whole of northern Israel for
many years to come.
Do you think that perhaps Lebanon didn't learn that lesson in the early
1980s? The difference between Lebanon and Egypt, Jordan, and Syria is
the strength of their governments. The latter are semi-dictatorships
while the former was a flourishing democracy that started to come apart
and was unable to control its territory adequately. The last Israeli
invasion didn't help that situation any and I don't think this one will
either. Lebanon is not Israel's enemy. Hezbollah is. Destroying
Lebanon's infrastructure will not help Lebanon control Hezbollah.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-04 20:52:04 UTC
Permalink
Hizbulla is a Terrorist Guerilla militia , that conffessed to having
prepared and stored 12000 rockets on our Northern borders. It might
interest you that while our people built little pensions and Zimmers [
bed and breakfast rooms] , they built bunkers.Which might give you an
idea to the intentions of each side ,
My youth town Nahariya and other places close to the border had
`monthly` border `disturbances`.kidnapped and killed
three soldiers [ observed and helped by Unifil] and for 3 years
tortured the families trading with Information about this soldiers.
One of the `so called prisoners` , whose release they demand, is a
plain muderer , who came with a boat at night entered a house and a
family.
Hizbulla was supporting and supplying , many of the suice bombers, who
killed over 1500 the last years.
They are Dug into the earth and shoot rockets and Katjushas at
civilians.
mirjam
from Haifa that was rocketed .
and ispent my youth in Nahariya that was yesterday RAINED with more
rockets than my friends remember in 23 years.
Also Akko where 7 people dies yesterday is one of my favorite places.
One of the oldest cities ,,
Post by Fred
According to Haaretz, Ynet, Jerusalem post and other news,
since the start of the conflict,
IDF has knocked out a total of;
0 Hezbullah fighter aircraft
0 Hezbullah anti-aircraft installations
0 Hezbullah war ships
0 Hezbullah tanks
0 Hezbullah armoured personel carriers
10 Hezbullah rocket launchers
200 - 300 Hezbullah fighters
Fred
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-04 20:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Hizbulla is a Terrorist Guerilla militia , that conffessed to having
prepared and stored 12000 rockets on our Northern borders. It might
interest you that while our people built little pensions and Zimmers [
bed and breakfast rooms] , they built bunkers.Which might give you an
idea to the intentions of each side ,
My youth town Nahariya and other places close to the border had
`monthly` border `disturbances`
The Hizbulla .kidnapped and killed
three soldiers [ observed and helped by Unifil] and for 3 years
tortured the families trading with Information about this soldiers.
One of the `so called prisoners` , whose release they demand, is a
plain muderer , who came with a boat at night entered a house and a
family.
Hizbulla was supporting and supplying , many of the suice bombers, who
killed over 1500 the last years.
They are Dug into the earth and shoot rockets and Katjushas at
civilians.
mirjam
from Haifa that was rocketed .
and ispent my youth in Nahariya that was yesterday RAINED with more
rockets than my friends remember in 23 years.
Also Akko where 7 people dies yesterday is one of my favorite places.
One of the oldest cities ,,
Post by Fred
According to Haaretz, Ynet, Jerusalem post and other news,
since the start of the conflict,
IDF has knocked out a total of;
0 Hezbullah fighter aircraft
0 Hezbullah anti-aircraft installations
0 Hezbullah war ships
0 Hezbullah tanks
0 Hezbullah armoured personel carriers
10 Hezbullah rocket launchers
200 - 300 Hezbullah fighters
Fred
Angbug
2006-08-11 15:59:11 UTC
Permalink
Mirjam,
I have a question for you. Just your opinion. What do you think the
likelihood is that Israel will try to take back the strip and do you
think they will be successful? Just looking for some interesting
information.

Angela
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-11 18:16:25 UTC
Permalink
Angela , first of all i do not consieder any question about Israel as
THEY ,, Israel is us, me + my family + my colleagues neighbours
etc,,,We have one lot.

If the happenings in Heathrow yesterday , hasn`t made it clear to you
in which world we live now? what do you want me to say.

Since I am not in the government , nore do i head the army , thus i
can`t tell you the plans. But since this is one of the most
interactive democracies and every tv station has some ex ministeres ex
army people etc,,arguing every moove.,, i can vouch for the general
idea, Which is , we want to live in peace with Lebanon , so that an
international border seperates us.
We can`t accept that a Fundamenatalist terror Militia Armed with
12000 rockets of various destructive abilities , will sit behind this
border and supported and armed by A Country that openly speak about
Our anihilation, and will Threaten us on a daily basis.
This is my personal opinion.
mirjam disliking rockets .
Post by g***@yahoo.com
Mirjam,
I have a question for you. Just your opinion. What do you think the
likelihood is that Israel will try to take back the strip and do you
think they will be successful? Just looking for some interesting
information.
Angela
Angbug
2006-08-11 18:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
Angela , first of all i do not consieder any question about Israel as
THEY ,, Israel is us, me + my family + my colleagues neighbours
etc,,,We have one lot.
I did not mean any offence by the terminology whatsoever. I am in full
support of Israel. I was simply asking your opinion (as a person there
at the present moment), if you think that at some point would consider
taking back the Gaza Strip from the Palestinians (In my humble opinion,
I believe it belongs to Israel). From my faith standpoint (yes, as a
Christian), Israel has always belonged there and I also feel that it
would be a HUGE mistake for the U.S. to not stand by Israel.

I didn't expect a response as if you were in the military or a
government member. I just want to educate myself further from someone
who sees things first had on a daily basis. That's all.

Angela
lucretia borgia
2006-08-11 18:37:48 UTC
Permalink
"Angbug" <***@bellsouth.net>,in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by Angbug
I didn't expect a response as if you were in the military or a
government member. I just want to educate myself further from someone
who sees things first had on a daily basis. That's all.
Angela
You need a massive education if you believe that the Palestinians
should be eradicated and the Gaza Strip given to Israel!
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-11 20:52:44 UTC
Permalink
For the time being , the ones kin on eradicating somebody else are the
Palestinian Hamas , a side group of Iranian terror .
I advice you lucretia to check your education ,,,,
on the 25 th of June they tunneled under the International border and
kidnapped one of our boys.
mirjam
Post by lucretia borgia
You need a massive education if you believe that the Palestinians
should be eradicated and the Gaza Strip given to Israel!
lucretia borgia
2006-08-11 20:20:53 UTC
Permalink
***@actcom.co.il (Mirjam Bruck-Cohen),in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
For the time being , the ones kin on eradicating somebody else are the
Palestinian Hamas , a side group of Iranian terror .
I advice you lucretia to check your education ,,,,
on the 25 th of June they tunneled under the International border and
kidnapped one of our boys.
mirjam
Would that be after you bombed their power station, or before ??? Or
maybe when you bombed some parents to death on the beach in front of
their children ?
Fred
2006-08-12 04:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by lucretia borgia
and entertained us with
Post by Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
For the time being , the ones kin on eradicating somebody else are the
Palestinian Hamas , a side group of Iranian terror .
I advice you lucretia to check your education ,,,,
on the 25 th of June they tunneled under the International border and
kidnapped one of our boys.
mirjam
Would that be after you bombed their power station, or before ??? Or
maybe when you bombed some parents to death on the beach in front of
their children ?
Most of the following incidents in the Gaza Concentration Camp
as reported by Israeli sources are about PEOPLE (not statistics).

On June 8, the Israeli army assassinated the recently appointed Palestinian
head of the security forces of the Interior Ministry, Jamal Abu Samhadana,
and three others.

On June 9, Israeli shells killed seven members of the same family picnicking
on Beit Lahiya beach. Some 32 others were wounded, including 13 children.

On June 13, an Israeli plane fired a missile into a busy Gaza City street,
killing 11 people, including two children and two medics.

On June 20, the Israeli army killed three Palestinian children and injured
15 others in Gaza with a missile attack.

On June 21, the Israelis killed a 35-year old pregnant woman, her brother,
and injured 11 others, including 6 children.

After the beach deaths, Hamas, the ruling party in the Palestinian
Authority, broke an 18-month ceasefire and joined other militant groups in
firing Kassam rockets into Israel. The Financial Times reported on June 23
that the missiles, principally targeted towards the Israel town of Sderot,
have caused damage and some casualties but no fatalities in the recent
barrages.

On June 24, Israeli commandos entered the Gaza Strip and kidnap two
Palestinians.

On June 25, Palestinian militants at an army post at Kerem Shalom near Gaza
capture an Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit and kill two others.

On June 29 Israeli troops arrested dozens of Hamas ministers and
parliamentarians as they stepped up their campaign to free the soldier
kidnapped by militants in Gaza at the weekend.
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1808570,00.html)

Since Israel withdrew from Gaza in September 2005 'til June 29, the
estimates run between 7,000 and 9,000 heavy artillery shells have been shot
and fired into Gaza. On the Palestinian side, the estimates are
approximately 1,000 Kassam missiles, (crude missiles), have been fired into
Israel. So there is a ratio of between seven and nine to one. A June 29
Guardian leader noted that the home-made Kassam rockets are "not in the same
league as Israel's hi-tech (though not always accurate) weaponry". 'Storm
over
Gaza,' The Guardian, June 29, 2006)

Up to June 29, approximately 80 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza due to
Israel artillery firing. There have been exactly eight Israelis killed in
the last five years from the Kassam missiles. Again, we have a huge
disproportion, a huge discrepancy."
('AIPAC v. Norman Finkelstein: A Debate on Israel's Assault on Gaza,' June
29, 2006

Finkelstein also compared the situation with regard to hostages: "let's talk
about those 9,000 Palestinians who are effectively hostages being held by
Israel. 1,000 of them are administrative detainees. Administrative detainees
who are being held without any charges or trial. And the other 8,000 are
being held until military courts have convicted them. So if you're going to
look simply at the numbers, you have one hostage on the Palestinian side
(the captured Israeli soldier), and effectively you have about 9,000 on the
Israeli side."

Earlier in the month, the Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem,
published fatality figures for June 2006 in the Occupied Territories and
Israel. Forty-two Palestinians, six of them minors, were killed by Israeli
armed forces. Twenty-four of the fatalities were bystanders not involved in
the conflict. (http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db9
00SID/EKOI-6RC53K?OpenDocument&rc=3&cc=isr ) B'Tselem's figures do not
include the seven members of the Ghaliya family killed on Beit Lahiya beach.

Also according to B'Tselem, in May 2006, 36 Palestinians were killed by
Israeli security forces, one Israeli civilian died from injuries he
sustained the previous month.

Collective Punishment - Frailer Palestinians Are Dying. Having killed many
more people in recent weeks, Israel's response to the soldier's capture has
been to heap yet more suffering on the Palestinian people. Israel re-invaded
Gaza with 5,000 troops on June 27 and then bombed Gaza's only electrical
generating station, so depriving half a million people of electricity. Human
Rights Watch commented:

"The destruction of the power station could quickly cause a humanitarian
crisis in Gaza, as electricity is essential to power the water system,
sewage treatment, and medical services". ('Gaza: Israeli Offensive Must
Limit Harm to Civilians,' June 29, 2006;
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/06/29/isrlpa13662.htm)

In the same attack, Israel destroyed three bridges, and the main water pipes
for two refugee camps. Will Hutton noted in the Observer: "Sealing off
access to water and food can only inflict acute discomfort on the people
there; already, frailer Palestinians are dying." (Hutton, 'Israel's act of
war is inexcusable,' The Observer, July 2, 2006)

Prior to these attacks, Save the Children's UK Programme Manager Jan Coffey
reported that 78% of the population in Gaza were living below the poverty
line with 10% of children under five suffering from chronic malnutrition. In
June, the World Food Programme reported that 51% of Palestinians - 2 million
people - were unable to meet their food needs without aid, and that in Gaza,
"the situation is becoming critical". (Justin Podur, 'Summer rains,' ZNet;
www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10500)

The New York Times reported July 3: "for all the pyrotechnics, the
[Israeli] operation has been relatively restrained". (Ian Fisher and Steven
Erlanger, 'Israel steps up Gaza raids in bid to free soldier,' New York
Times, July 3, 2006)

"Relatively Restrained" - NO KIDDING!!!

In July, the Israeli military killed 163 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, 78
or
(48 percent) of whom were not taking part in the hostilities when they were
killed, B'Tselem claimed. According to the report, thirty-six of the
fatalities were minors, and 20 were women. In the West Bank , 15
Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces in July. The number of
Palestinian fatalities in July was the highest in any month since April
2002. 1,200 Palestinians were injured by the end of July.

On 12 July 2006, a group of youths sought shelter from IDF bombing. Ten of
the youths went and hid in a big pit. A missile fired from by an Air Force
plane hit the pit, killing six of the youths, five of them minors: Mahmmuad
al-'Asar, Ibrahim a-Nabahin and Ibrahim Qatush, age 15, Ahmad Abu hajaj, age
16. Salah Abu Maktomah, age 17 and Hassan 'Abeid, age 18.

On 21 July 2006, a few members of the Hararah family went onto the roof of
their house in the a-Sheja'iyeh neighborhood in Gaza City to watch tanks
advancing toward the neighborhood. One of the tanks fired a shell at the
house. It hit the staircase and killed Muhammad Hararah,, 45, the brother of
the owner of the house. Almost immediately afterwards, another shell was
fired at the same spot, killing the mother of the family, Sabah, 45, and two
of her sons, Muamen, 16, and 'Amer, 23.

On 24 July 2006, two youngsters left their family's farm in the Beit Lahiya
area after shells had fallen on the farm's land. They went by horse-drawn
wagon and on the way picked up two of their family. A missile, fired by an
Air Force plane, made a direct hit on the wagon, killing Khairieh al-'Attar,
58 and her grandchild Nadi al-'Attar , 11. Another member of the family,
Shadi, 14 was injured. Testimony of Shadi al-'Attar. IDF also fired a shell
that fell next to the a-Nada Towers , a housing project located in the
northern Gaza Strip. The shelling killed three civilians, one of them a
minor: Saleh Naser, 14, Sadeq Naser, 33, and S'adi Na'im, 29.

Note - The term "Kassam rockets" is sometimes spelt as "Qassam rockets".
When we were kids we used to make rockets like these from 4 feet of
eave-trough down pipe stuffed with propellant - range about 1/2 to 1 mile or
just under 2 km if one could get them to fly straight.

Fred.
lucretia borgia
2006-08-12 12:59:28 UTC
Permalink
"Fred" <***@mts.net>,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by Fred
Post by lucretia borgia
and entertained us with
Post by Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
For the time being , the ones kin on eradicating somebody else are the
Palestinian Hamas , a side group of Iranian terror .
I advice you lucretia to check your education ,,,,
on the 25 th of June they tunneled under the International border and
kidnapped one of our boys.
mirjam
Would that be after you bombed their power station, or before ??? Or
maybe when you bombed some parents to death on the beach in front of
their children ?
Most of the following incidents in the Gaza Concentration Camp
as reported by Israeli sources are about PEOPLE (not statistics).
On June 8, the Israeli army assassinated the recently appointed Palestinian
head of the security forces of the Interior Ministry, Jamal Abu Samhadana,
and three others.
On June 9, Israeli shells killed seven members of the same family picnicking
on Beit Lahiya beach. Some 32 others were wounded, including 13 children.
On June 13, an Israeli plane fired a missile into a busy Gaza City street,
killing 11 people, including two children and two medics.
On June 20, the Israeli army killed three Palestinian children and injured
15 others in Gaza with a missile attack.
On June 21, the Israelis killed a 35-year old pregnant woman, her brother,
and injured 11 others, including 6 children.
After the beach deaths, Hamas, the ruling party in the Palestinian
Authority, broke an 18-month ceasefire and joined other militant groups in
firing Kassam rockets into Israel. The Financial Times reported on June 23
that the missiles, principally targeted towards the Israel town of Sderot,
have caused damage and some casualties but no fatalities in the recent
barrages.
On June 24, Israeli commandos entered the Gaza Strip and kidnap two
Palestinians.
On June 25, Palestinian militants at an army post at Kerem Shalom near Gaza
capture an Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit and kill two others.
On June 29 Israeli troops arrested dozens of Hamas ministers and
parliamentarians as they stepped up their campaign to free the soldier
kidnapped by militants in Gaza at the weekend.
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1808570,00.html)
Since Israel withdrew from Gaza in September 2005 'til June 29, the
estimates run between 7,000 and 9,000 heavy artillery shells have been shot
and fired into Gaza. On the Palestinian side, the estimates are
approximately 1,000 Kassam missiles, (crude missiles), have been fired into
Israel. So there is a ratio of between seven and nine to one. A June 29
Guardian leader noted that the home-made Kassam rockets are "not in the same
league as Israel's hi-tech (though not always accurate) weaponry". 'Storm
over
Gaza,' The Guardian, June 29, 2006)
Up to June 29, approximately 80 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza due to
Israel artillery firing. There have been exactly eight Israelis killed in
the last five years from the Kassam missiles. Again, we have a huge
disproportion, a huge discrepancy."
('AIPAC v. Norman Finkelstein: A Debate on Israel's Assault on Gaza,' June
29, 2006
Finkelstein also compared the situation with regard to hostages: "let's talk
about those 9,000 Palestinians who are effectively hostages being held by
Israel. 1,000 of them are administrative detainees. Administrative detainees
who are being held without any charges or trial. And the other 8,000 are
being held until military courts have convicted them. So if you're going to
look simply at the numbers, you have one hostage on the Palestinian side
(the captured Israeli soldier), and effectively you have about 9,000 on the
Israeli side."
Earlier in the month, the Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem,
published fatality figures for June 2006 in the Occupied Territories and
Israel. Forty-two Palestinians, six of them minors, were killed by Israeli
armed forces. Twenty-four of the fatalities were bystanders not involved in
the conflict. (http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db9
00SID/EKOI-6RC53K?OpenDocument&rc=3&cc=isr ) B'Tselem's figures do not
include the seven members of the Ghaliya family killed on Beit Lahiya beach.
Also according to B'Tselem, in May 2006, 36 Palestinians were killed by
Israeli security forces, one Israeli civilian died from injuries he
sustained the previous month.
Collective Punishment - Frailer Palestinians Are Dying. Having killed many
more people in recent weeks, Israel's response to the soldier's capture has
been to heap yet more suffering on the Palestinian people. Israel re-invaded
Gaza with 5,000 troops on June 27 and then bombed Gaza's only electrical
generating station, so depriving half a million people of electricity. Human
"The destruction of the power station could quickly cause a humanitarian
crisis in Gaza, as electricity is essential to power the water system,
sewage treatment, and medical services". ('Gaza: Israeli Offensive Must
Limit Harm to Civilians,' June 29, 2006;
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/06/29/isrlpa13662.htm)
In the same attack, Israel destroyed three bridges, and the main water pipes
for two refugee camps. Will Hutton noted in the Observer: "Sealing off
access to water and food can only inflict acute discomfort on the people
there; already, frailer Palestinians are dying." (Hutton, 'Israel's act of
war is inexcusable,' The Observer, July 2, 2006)
Prior to these attacks, Save the Children's UK Programme Manager Jan Coffey
reported that 78% of the population in Gaza were living below the poverty
line with 10% of children under five suffering from chronic malnutrition. In
June, the World Food Programme reported that 51% of Palestinians - 2 million
people - were unable to meet their food needs without aid, and that in Gaza,
"the situation is becoming critical". (Justin Podur, 'Summer rains,' ZNet;
www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10500)
The New York Times reported July 3: "for all the pyrotechnics, the
[Israeli] operation has been relatively restrained". (Ian Fisher and Steven
Erlanger, 'Israel steps up Gaza raids in bid to free soldier,' New York
Times, July 3, 2006)
"Relatively Restrained" - NO KIDDING!!!
In July, the Israeli military killed 163 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, 78
or
(48 percent) of whom were not taking part in the hostilities when they were
killed, B'Tselem claimed. According to the report, thirty-six of the
fatalities were minors, and 20 were women. In the West Bank , 15
Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces in July. The number of
Palestinian fatalities in July was the highest in any month since April
2002. 1,200 Palestinians were injured by the end of July.
On 12 July 2006, a group of youths sought shelter from IDF bombing. Ten of
the youths went and hid in a big pit. A missile fired from by an Air Force
plane hit the pit, killing six of the youths, five of them minors: Mahmmuad
al-'Asar, Ibrahim a-Nabahin and Ibrahim Qatush, age 15, Ahmad Abu hajaj, age
16. Salah Abu Maktomah, age 17 and Hassan 'Abeid, age 18.
On 21 July 2006, a few members of the Hararah family went onto the roof of
their house in the a-Sheja'iyeh neighborhood in Gaza City to watch tanks
advancing toward the neighborhood. One of the tanks fired a shell at the
house. It hit the staircase and killed Muhammad Hararah,, 45, the brother of
the owner of the house. Almost immediately afterwards, another shell was
fired at the same spot, killing the mother of the family, Sabah, 45, and two
of her sons, Muamen, 16, and 'Amer, 23.
On 24 July 2006, two youngsters left their family's farm in the Beit Lahiya
area after shells had fallen on the farm's land. They went by horse-drawn
wagon and on the way picked up two of their family. A missile, fired by an
Air Force plane, made a direct hit on the wagon, killing Khairieh al-'Attar,
58 and her grandchild Nadi al-'Attar , 11. Another member of the family,
Shadi, 14 was injured. Testimony of Shadi al-'Attar. IDF also fired a shell
that fell next to the a-Nada Towers , a housing project located in the
northern Gaza Strip. The shelling killed three civilians, one of them a
minor: Saleh Naser, 14, Sadeq Naser, 33, and S'adi Na'im, 29.
Note - The term "Kassam rockets" is sometimes spelt as "Qassam rockets".
When we were kids we used to make rockets like these from 4 feet of
eave-trough down pipe stuffed with propellant - range about 1/2 to 1 mile or
just under 2 km if one could get them to fly straight.
Fred.
Thank you Fred for your usual well-backed up post.
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-12 14:09:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by lucretia borgia
and entertained us with
Post by Fred
snip
On June 9, Israeli shells killed seven members of the same family picnicking
on Beit Lahiya beach. Some 32 others were wounded, including 13 children.
(snip
Fred.
Thank you Fred for your usual well-backed up post.
"Well-backed up post" indeed!! I think not. I wont comment on the
rest of the garbage Fred wrote, but the best evidence I saw on the
incident I left in, was the damage was caused by a Palestinian explosive
device left on the beach, targeting Israeli commands who come ashore. And
it was not in the plural. There was only one explosion.
lucretia borgia
2006-08-12 14:15:30 UTC
Permalink
***@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (F.James Cripwell),in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by lucretia borgia
and entertained us with
Post by Fred
snip
On June 9, Israeli shells killed seven members of the same family picnicking
on Beit Lahiya beach. Some 32 others were wounded, including 13 children.
(snip
Fred.
Thank you Fred for your usual well-backed up post.
"Well-backed up post" indeed!! I think not. I wont comment on the
rest of the garbage Fred wrote, but the best evidence I saw on the
incident I left in, was the damage was caused by a Palestinian explosive
device left on the beach, targeting Israeli commands who come ashore. And
it was not in the plural. There was only one explosion.
Show us the articles that you feel show Fred is in error - rather than
what you think.
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-12 18:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by lucretia borgia
Show us the articles that you feel show Fred is in error - rather than
what you think.
Fred gave an ******EXTREMELY****** biased account of what has
happened in the Middle East. It is not that Fred is in error on all of
them, but merely he has been so selective that the net result is that his
comments are garbage.
lucretia borgia
2006-08-12 22:22:35 UTC
Permalink
***@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (F.James Cripwell),in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by lucretia borgia
Show us the articles that you feel show Fred is in error - rather than
what you think.
Fred gave an ******EXTREMELY****** biased account of what has
happened in the Middle East. It is not that Fred is in error on all of
them, but merely he has been so selective that the net result is that his
comments are garbage.
I disagree. The quoted articles are not lies so therefore whether you
like them or not, you are not able to dismiss them as 'garbage'. If
they are such 'garbage' point us to facts that disprove his articles
that he quoted, that make you decide your opinion is not garbage.
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-13 10:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by lucretia borgia
Post by F.James Cripwell
Fred gave an ******EXTREMELY****** biased account of what has
happened in the Middle East. It is not that Fred is in error on all of
them, but merely he has been so selective that the net result is that his
comments are garbage.
I disagree. The quoted articles are not lies so therefore whether you
like them or not, you are not able to dismiss them as 'garbage'. If
they are such 'garbage' point us to facts that disprove his articles
that he quoted, that make you decide your opinion is not garbage.
I do wish people would read what is written. I never said that what
Fred wrote was wrong, or lies or whatever. I said it was biased. That is
it presents only one side of the story in a ***VERY*** exaggerated way.
This sort of rabble rousing I feel is garbage. If I attempted to answer
each and every biased item Fred wrote, it would take up far too much
bandwidth, and be a pretty useless exercise anyway.
lucretia borgia
2006-08-13 11:17:10 UTC
Permalink
***@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (F.James Cripwell),in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by lucretia borgia
Post by F.James Cripwell
Fred gave an ******EXTREMELY****** biased account of what has
happened in the Middle East. It is not that Fred is in error on all of
them, but merely he has been so selective that the net result is that his
comments are garbage.
I disagree. The quoted articles are not lies so therefore whether you
like them or not, you are not able to dismiss them as 'garbage'. If
they are such 'garbage' point us to facts that disprove his articles
that he quoted, that make you decide your opinion is not garbage.
I do wish people would read what is written. I never said that what
Fred wrote was wrong, or lies or whatever. I said it was biased. That is
it presents only one side of the story in a ***VERY*** exaggerated way.
This sort of rabble rousing I feel is garbage. If I attempted to answer
each and every biased item Fred wrote, it would take up far too much
bandwidth, and be a pretty useless exercise anyway.
You make it clear the articles were truthful so it is more a case that
it is a truth that is not palatable to you. I believe you only want
to hear the stats that please you, not the ones that conflict with
your view.
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-13 12:26:36 UTC
Permalink
Lucretia
Speaking from Personal Experience of course!!!
You Never see hear or want to know , our side.
mirjam
Post by lucretia borgia
You make it clear the articles were truthful so it is more a case that
it is a truth that is not palatable to you. I believe you only want
to hear the stats that please you, not the ones that conflict with
your view.
lucretia borgia
2006-08-13 12:00:48 UTC
Permalink
***@actcom.co.il (Mirjam Bruck-Cohen),in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
Lucretia
Speaking from Personal Experience of course!!!
You Never see hear or want to know , our side.
mirjam
Post by lucretia borgia
You make it clear the articles were truthful so it is more a case that
it is a truth that is not palatable to you. I believe you only want
to hear the stats that please you, not the ones that conflict with
your view.
That would be incorrect. Over here 99% of the television/radio news
is heavily, and I do mean heavily, slanted in favour of Israel. Like
Fred, I listen to other broadcasts from other countries in order to
try and round out news reports and NOT just take as gospel what our
media here puts forth.

We are always seeing news clips of your Prime Minister and what he has
to say on any given thing, but far less frequently what the President
of Lebanon has to say. One has to go looking to hear anything else. I
get weary of seeing C. Rice running around, looking important but
doing nothing. I think Koffi Anan (sp?) was correct when he said the
world should be ashamed that it has allowed this to happen to the
Lebanese. If we should be ashamed, where does that leave you ?
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-13 15:20:44 UTC
Permalink
As i sit all day under alarms of falling rockets i have time to read
your words,,,,, If you are so kin on quoting Mr Annan , you should
also note that he put the blame on Hizbulla , and never denied us the
right to deffened ourselves. The UN should be ashamed since the
Stashing of Rockets was done under the surveilance of the Unifil.
Who by the way also watched ,3 years ago the killing and kidnapping of
3 of our boys by the Hizbulla, and for quite sometime they refused to
tell it to the parents. They never did a thing about it.
I think that President Seniora has every Media open to him. He
neglected his duty to his country 6 years ago to disarm this Terror
Militia. That is the root of all evil.
Our side of the INTERNATIONAL accknowledged border we built Tourist
resorts, the other side built Rockets storages..

If you don`t get it that this is a fight against a new form of Facism
than you are in for a big surprise. You or your grand kids.
mirjam
Post by lucretia borgia
That would be incorrect. Over here 99% of the television/radio news
is heavily, and I do mean heavily, slanted in favour of Israel. Like
Fred, I listen to other broadcasts from other countries in order to
try and round out news reports and NOT just take as gospel what our
media here puts forth.
We are always seeing news clips of your Prime Minister and what he has
to say on any given thing, but far less frequently what the President
of Lebanon has to say. One has to go looking to hear anything else. I
get weary of seeing C. Rice running around, looking important but
doing nothing. I think Koffi Anan (sp?) was correct when he said the
world should be ashamed that it has allowed this to happen to the
Lebanese. If we should be ashamed, where does that leave you ?
s***@bellsouth.net
2006-08-13 15:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Like we should believe anything that comes out of that man's mouth??? Have
you forgotten his role in the money for food scandal?

From what I can tell on US TV, the coverage is surprisingly not pro Israel.
Just remember that anytime you mess with Israel, they will fight back. As I
recall, the Israel soldiers (not sure how many) were kidnapped first and
that's what started this??

Janet
Post by lucretia borgia
and entertained us with
Post by Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
Lucretia
Speaking from Personal Experience of course!!!
You Never see hear or want to know , our side.
mirjam
Post by lucretia borgia
You make it clear the articles were truthful so it is more a case that
it is a truth that is not palatable to you. I believe you only want
to hear the stats that please you, not the ones that conflict with
your view.
That would be incorrect. Over here 99% of the television/radio news
is heavily, and I do mean heavily, slanted in favour of Israel. Like
Fred, I listen to other broadcasts from other countries in order to
try and round out news reports and NOT just take as gospel what our
media here puts forth.
We are always seeing news clips of your Prime Minister and what he has
to say on any given thing, but far less frequently what the President
of Lebanon has to say. One has to go looking to hear anything else. I
get weary of seeing C. Rice running around, looking important but
doing nothing. I think Koffi Anan (sp?) was correct when he said the
world should be ashamed that it has allowed this to happen to the
Lebanese. If we should be ashamed, where does that leave you ?
lucretia borgia
2006-08-13 15:48:59 UTC
Permalink
<***@bellsouth.net>,in rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by s***@bellsouth.net
Like we should believe anything that comes out of that man's mouth??? Have
you forgotten his role in the money for food scandal?
Why is what he says less pungent because of the food scandal ? I
don't have to 'believe' what he says, he made a statement that did not
ask anything of anyone. If he were Satan himself, I could still agree
with him. Funny idea that, that I should or shouldn't 'believe'
anything coming out of his mouth ! A little biased are we ?
Post by s***@bellsouth.net
From what I can tell on US TV, the coverage is surprisingly not pro Israel.
Just remember that anytime you mess with Israel, they will fight back. As I
recall, the Israel soldiers (not sure how many) were kidnapped first and
that's what started this??
Janet
You beautifully reflect the media output of CNN, it's like looking in
a mirror lol
Karen C - California
2006-08-13 16:49:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@bellsouth.net
As I
recall, the Israel soldiers (not sure how many) were kidnapped first and
that's what started this??
Janet
Mom's Favorite Question: "And what did you do to her FIRST?"

There's a long history of aggression between Arabs and Jews, going back
generations. At this point, it's become rather like when your mother
reminds your father of that time in 1959 that he.....

Turkey ceded this land to Britain after WWI. As the owner, Britain
could do anything they wanted with it and the Arabs had no control over
the land which was no longer theirs. Britain was in favor of using it
for a Jewish Homeland, which came to fruition in 1948 with the blessing
of the UN. The Arabs swore to run the Jews out of their own country,
just as they'd been run out of many other countries (which was why they
needed a Jewish Homeland).

I'm sorry if the Arabs don't like it, but in the 20th century, the land
was Britain's to do with as they wished. It made sense to Britain, and
the rest of the UN, to create a Jewish homeland on land which was once
the heart of Judaism. They didn't have to ask permission from the Arabs
any more than you need to ask your neighbor's permission to invite Aunt
Edna to sit in your own back yard.

I don't like my neighbors, either, but I've found it more
socially-acceptable to ignore the *itch than to throw firebombs at her
house to try to run her off. Maybe the Arabs should learn to do the same.
--
Karen C - California

Finished 7/4/06 - needlepoint calendar canvas for August
WIP: Getting all the UFOs done, July birthstone, Flowers of
Hawaii (Jeanette Crews) for ME!!!, Farmers Market (TIAG#8)
Stitchalong: FarmersMarketSAL-***@yahoogroups.com
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel
LTR: Fireman's Prayer (#2), Amid Amish Life, Angel of Autumn,
Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe

www.CFSfacts.org where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf

See my designs exclusively at www.TyWolfeDesigns.com

Editor/Proofreader www.KarenMCampbell.com
Dr. Brat
2006-08-14 23:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karen C - California
Post by s***@bellsouth.net
As I
recall, the Israel soldiers (not sure how many) were kidnapped first
and that's what started this??
Janet
Mom's Favorite Question: "And what did you do to her FIRST?"
There's a long history of aggression between Arabs and Jews, going back
generations. At this point, it's become rather like when your mother
reminds your father of that time in 1959 that he.....
Turkey ceded this land to Britain after WWI. As the owner, Britain
could do anything they wanted with it and the Arabs had no control over
the land which was no longer theirs. Britain was in favor of using it
for a Jewish Homeland, which came to fruition in 1948 with the blessing
of the UN. The Arabs swore to run the Jews out of their own country,
just as they'd been run out of many other countries (which was why they
needed a Jewish Homeland).
I'm sorry if the Arabs don't like it, but in the 20th century, the land
was Britain's to do with as they wished. It made sense to Britain, and
the rest of the UN, to create a Jewish homeland on land which was once
the heart of Judaism. They didn't have to ask permission from the Arabs
any more than you need to ask your neighbor's permission to invite Aunt
Edna to sit in your own back yard.
That's a pretty selective history, Karen. You've forgotten both the
part where Britain got the Arabs to revolt against the Ottoman Empire by
promising that they would have independence in those lands and the part
where Britain forbade Jewish immigration into the area, as well as the
part where Britain managage to promise the same bit of land to two
different groups of people at the same time.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Dianne Lewandowski
2006-08-15 00:00:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Brat
That's a pretty selective history, Karen. You've forgotten both the
part where Britain got the Arabs to revolt against the Ottoman Empire by
promising that they would have independence in those lands and the part
where Britain forbade Jewish immigration into the area, as well as the
part where Britain managage to promise the same bit of land to two
different groups of people at the same time.
I watched "60 Minutes" last night and the interview with the President
of Iran (don't ask me to spell it). It was quite an artful dodge on his
part, but I was especially curious about his remarks asking why the land
was carved out of the Middle East when Europe (if there was a holocaust)
could have volunteered some of their land.

It is interesting to me how we come up with these supposedly logical and
rational ideas. This man is highly educated.

He also doesn't like Bush very much.

All in all, a unique interview. Those who understand all of the history
there will probably have a lot to chew on after viewing this.

Dianne
--
Embroidery Discussions at http://www.heritageshoppe.com/forum
lucretia borgia
2006-08-15 00:27:08 UTC
Permalink
Dianne Lewandowski <***@heritageshoppe.com>,in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by Dianne Lewandowski
He also doesn't like Bush very much.
Dianne, first prize for understatement of the year ! I say that in
amusement.

I missed the interview unfortunately.
Post by Dianne Lewandowski
All in all, a unique interview. Those who understand all of the history
there will probably have a lot to chew on after viewing this.
Dianne
Dr. Brat
2006-08-15 01:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dianne Lewandowski
Post by Dr. Brat
That's a pretty selective history, Karen. You've forgotten both the
part where Britain got the Arabs to revolt against the Ottoman Empire
by promising that they would have independence in those lands and the
part where Britain forbade Jewish immigration into the area, as well
as the part where Britain managage to promise the same bit of land to
two different groups of people at the same time.
I watched "60 Minutes" last night and the interview with the President
of Iran (don't ask me to spell it). It was quite an artful dodge on his
part, but I was especially curious about his remarks asking why the land
was carved out of the Middle East when Europe (if there was a holocaust)
could have volunteered some of their land.
Theodore Herzl is said to have favored a European homeland for the Jews,
but there has always been religious support for a return to the land
given by God to Abraham. And by the turn of the last century, there was
already a movement among European Zionists to purchace land for
settlement by Jewish families.

Here lies one of the roots of the modern problem. European Jews with
European ideas of property bought land from absentee landlords in the
Ottoman court and then settled that land (which they considered theirs,
having purchased it), displacing the Arab peasants whose families had
lived on the land for centuries (thus, in their eyes, making the land
theirs) and creating both a displacement issue and a political problem.
There were riots against Jewish settlements in the area even under the
Ottomans.

One of the common anti-Isreali positions taken by Arabs and other
leaders of poorer countries is that Israel is the result of European
colonization: the anti-Semitic Europeans didn't know what to do with
their Jews so they exported the problem to the Middle East. Like all
slogans, it's a bit simplistic, but obviously President Ahmadinejad buys
it. He's also a Holocaust denyer, by the way, which significantly
weakens his credibility.

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
anne
2006-08-15 13:42:49 UTC
Permalink
Dr. Brat said
Post by Dr. Brat
One of the common anti-Isreali positions taken by Arabs and other
leaders of poorer countries is that Israel is the result of European
colonization: the anti-Semitic Europeans didn't know what to do with
their Jews so they exported the problem to the Middle East. Like all
slogans, it's a bit simplistic, but obviously President Ahmadinejad buys
it. He's also a Holocaust denyer, by the way, which significantly
weakens his credibility.
Do you ever think that educated people really don't believe the simplistic
slogans they spout but say those things to stir up a less educated 'fan' base?
I do <sigh>
--
another Anne, add ingers to frugalf to reply
Dianne Lewandowski
2006-08-15 16:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by anne
Do you ever think that educated people really don't believe the simplistic
slogans they spout but say those things to stir up a less educated 'fan' base?
I do <sigh>
I thought that, as well, as I watched the man speak. Sometimes it was
quite incredulous for a man of his education. However, I quickly
remembered several people I know who have deep rooted viases in spite of
facts to the contrary. Such as the professor in Chicago who also denies
the Holocaust.

Dianne
--
Embroidery Discussions at http://www.heritageshoppe.com/forum
Dianne Lewandowski
2006-08-15 16:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Brat
Post by Dianne Lewandowski
Post by Dr. Brat
That's a pretty selective history, Karen. You've forgotten both the
part where Britain got the Arabs to revolt against the Ottoman Empire
by promising that they would have independence in those lands and the
part where Britain forbade Jewish immigration into the area, as well
as the part where Britain managage to promise the same bit of land to
two different groups of people at the same time.
I watched "60 Minutes" last night and the interview with the President
of Iran (don't ask me to spell it). It was quite an artful dodge on
his part, but I was especially curious about his remarks asking why
the land was carved out of the Middle East when Europe (if there was a
holocaust) could have volunteered some of their land.
Theodore Herzl is said to have favored a European homeland for the Jews,
but there has always been religious support for a return to the land
given by God to Abraham. And by the turn of the last century, there was
already a movement among European Zionists to purchace land for
settlement by Jewish families.
Here lies one of the roots of the modern problem. European Jews with
European ideas of property bought land from absentee landlords in the
Ottoman court and then settled that land (which they considered theirs,
having purchased it), displacing the Arab peasants whose families had
lived on the land for centuries (thus, in their eyes, making the land
theirs) and creating both a displacement issue and a political problem.
There were riots against Jewish settlements in the area even under the
Ottomans.
One of the common anti-Isreali positions taken by Arabs and other
leaders of poorer countries is that Israel is the result of European
colonization: the anti-Semitic Europeans didn't know what to do with
their Jews so they exported the problem to the Middle East. Like all
slogans, it's a bit simplistic, but obviously President Ahmadinejad buys
it. He's also a Holocaust denyer, by the way, which significantly
weakens his credibility.
Elizabeth
Thanks for the head up. Yes, he's a Holocaust denyer, which is why I
said: (if there was a holocaust) I meant that to reflect his feelings
when he spoke of the situation. Not to reflect how I felt. That wasn't
clear and I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Dianne
--
Embroidery Discussions at http://www.heritageshoppe.com/forum
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-15 19:04:38 UTC
Permalink
The British made their pact with certain Arabs , not all Arabs ,, the
2 SAUDI Hashemite Brothers Feisel and Abdaalla were promised, the
aprox, places of the Now Iraq, and Jordan .During WW1.

The British forbade Jewish immigration to Israel only during WW2,
mirjam
Dr. Brat
2006-08-15 01:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karen C - California
Turkey ceded this land to Britain after WWI. As the owner, Britain
could do anything they wanted with it and the Arabs had no control over
the land which was no longer theirs. Britain was in favor of using it
for a Jewish Homeland, which came to fruition in 1948 with the blessing
of the UN.
Just another quick clarification: Britain was actually ambivalent about
creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine and had to be helped along in
making their decision by the activity of the Irgun and other
"nationalist" movements. But Britain was certainly not in favor of
creating an Israeli state in 1948. In fact, they washed their hands of
the situation by declaring their intention to abandon the Mandate as of
May 15, 1948 (and they were, at the time, actively selling guns to the
Arabs. The Israelis, ironically enough, got theirs from Czechoslovakia).

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Dr. Brat
2006-08-15 01:55:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karen C - California
I'm sorry if the Arabs don't like it, but in the 20th century, the land
was Britain's to do with as they wished. It made sense to Britain, and
the rest of the UN, to create a Jewish homeland on land which was once
the heart of Judaism.
Great Britain, by the way, disapproved of the UN's plan to partition the
area now occupied by Israel, and abstained from voting on it.
(http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/partition.html)

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-13 18:14:22 UTC
Permalink
YES Janet , Hizbula the terrorist militia , that overtook South
Lebanon, Attacked 2 of our [ Israeli] villages with rockets, and under
the cover of this attack , they Cut through the INTERNATIONAL
REcognized Border , went into Israeli territoy killed 3 and kidnapped
2 of our boys.
mirjam
Post by s***@bellsouth.net
Like we should believe anything that comes out of that man's mouth??? Have
you forgotten his role in the money for food scandal?
From what I can tell on US TV, the coverage is surprisingly not pro Israel.
Just remember that anytime you mess with Israel, they will fight back. As I
recall, the Israel soldiers (not sure how many) were kidnapped first and
that's what started this??
Janet
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-13 14:58:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by lucretia borgia
You make it clear the articles were truthful so it is more a case that
it is a truth that is not palatable to you. I believe you only want
to hear the stats that please you, not the ones that conflict with
your view.
On the contrary. I could quote from truthful, daily occurrences in
Canada where people are murdered, raped, robbed, etc. etc. To present
these truths as somehow being typical of the way 99.9% + of Canadians
live would be a gross misrepresentation, and I would regard it as garbage.
Just because something is true, does not mean that it represents reality.
Pat P
2006-08-13 11:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by lucretia borgia
Post by F.James Cripwell
Fred gave an ******EXTREMELY****** biased account of what has
happened in the Middle East. It is not that Fred is in error on all of
them, but merely he has been so selective that the net result is that his
comments are garbage.
I disagree. The quoted articles are not lies so therefore whether you
like them or not, you are not able to dismiss them as 'garbage'. If
they are such 'garbage' point us to facts that disprove his articles
that he quoted, that make you decide your opinion is not garbage.
I do wish people would read what is written. I never said that what
Fred wrote was wrong, or lies or whatever. I said it was biased. That is
it presents only one side of the story in a ***VERY*** exaggerated way.
This sort of rabble rousing I feel is garbage. If I attempted to answer
each and every biased item Fred wrote, it would take up far too much
bandwidth, and be a pretty useless exercise anyway.
You`re wriggling, Jim - why don`t you just admit you have no real answer!

Pat P
Dr. Brat
2006-08-14 23:34:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by lucretia borgia
Show us the articles that you feel show Fred is in error - rather than
what you think.
Fred gave an ******EXTREMELY****** biased account of what has
happened in the Middle East. It is not that Fred is in error on all of
them, but merely he has been so selective that the net result is that his
comments are garbage.
But if we read Fred's biased comments and then read your biased
comments, we should have a perfectly balanced picture, no?

Elizabeth
--
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~living well is the best revenge~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The most important thing one woman can do for another is to illuminate
and expand her sense of actual possibilities. --Adrienne Rich
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-12 15:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Aha Yes i forgot FRED
Pakistan , Afghanistan, Kosovo are al very close to your country ,
your friends and family are daily threatend by their rockets , suicide
bombers etc,,,,
The only difference is your country can deffend itself far away from
where it`s own citizens live.
The Other difference is that you keep your journalists further away
from the real happenings.
Here it is Next door to all of us ,,, this is a small country if
someone gets shot on one side the echo resonants all over the tiny
country.
mirjam
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-12 15:11:04 UTC
Permalink
And in all this time ,, rockets flew over part of our southern village
, killing children and grown ups as well. In Shederot hundreds of
Kassams Rockets are falling....
But this of course isn`t interesting to you .

mirjam
r***@spambtinternet.com
2006-08-12 09:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Can this OT discussion be carried out on another newsgroup or via email?
It has nothing to do with needlework and clogs up my computer with
un-necessary postings.
--
Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
Pat P
2006-08-12 10:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
Can this OT discussion be carried out on another newsgroup or via email?
It has nothing to do with needlework and clogs up my computer with
un-necessary postings.
--
Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
It`s marked OT., Bruce, precisely because it HAS nothing to do with
needlework . Thus you can

a) Not read them
b) Delete them
c) Set your newsreader to prevent them even from reaching you.

There are a lot of us most concerned about the situation, and one of our
stitching members, unfortunately, is in the thick of it.

Pat P
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-12 14:15:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat P
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
Can this OT discussion be carried out on another newsgroup or via email?
It has nothing to do with needlework and clogs up my computer with
un-necessary postings.
--
Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
It`s marked OT., Bruce, precisely because it HAS nothing to do with
needlework . Thus you can
a) Not read them
b) Delete them
c) Set your newsreader to prevent them even from reaching you.
There are a lot of us most concerned about the situation, and one of our
stitching members, unfortunately, is in the thick of it.
Pat P
Well said, Pat, and every one else who commented in the same vein!!
If I had a Canadian dollar for every post like the one Bruce wrote, that I
have read on rctn, I could go to my LNS and have enough S.E.X. to last me
a year. I would put Bruce's alternatives another way.

a) Leave rctn altogether
b) Learn to killfile
c) Learn to ignore them.
I recommend c).
lucretia borgia
2006-08-12 14:18:21 UTC
Permalink
***@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (F.James Cripwell),in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by Pat P
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
Can this OT discussion be carried out on another newsgroup or via email?
It has nothing to do with needlework and clogs up my computer with
un-necessary postings.
--
Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
It`s marked OT., Bruce, precisely because it HAS nothing to do with
needlework . Thus you can
a) Not read them
b) Delete them
c) Set your newsreader to prevent them even from reaching you.
There are a lot of us most concerned about the situation, and one of our
stitching members, unfortunately, is in the thick of it.
Pat P
Well said, Pat, and every one else who commented in the same vein!!
If I had a Canadian dollar for every post like the one Bruce wrote, that I
have read on rctn, I could go to my LNS and have enough S.E.X. to last me
a year. I would put Bruce's alternatives another way.
a) Leave rctn altogether
b) Learn to killfile
c) Learn to ignore them.
I recommend c).
That's a paradox!

You got the original post going with your request for statistics, now
you claim they should be ignored.
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-12 18:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by lucretia borgia
That's a paradox!
You got the original post going with your request for statistics, now
you claim they should be ignored.
Touche(with an acutre accent on the e). However, I dont ignore the
posts, but I am sure there are lots of rctners who are not the slightest
bit interested in what I asked for, and, hopefully, they will ignore the
thread.
Brenda Lewis
2006-08-14 15:25:00 UTC
Permalink
Alt + keypad 0233 will give you é on a Windows machine. I've learned
something from my sig! But so far that's been the most interesting
thing about this thread....
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by lucretia borgia
That's a paradox!
You got the original post going with your request for statistics, now
you claim they should be ignored.
Touche(with an acutre accent on the e). However, I dont ignore the
posts, but I am sure there are lots of rctners who are not the slightest
bit interested in what I asked for, and, hopefully, they will ignore the
thread.
--
Brenda
Help Project Gutenberg--become a Distributed Proofreader
http://www.pgdp.net/
F.James Cripwell
2006-08-14 15:40:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brenda Lewis
Alt + keypad 0233 will give you é on a Windows machine. I've learned
something from my sig! But so far that's been the most interesting
thing about this thread....
--
Brenda
Yes and no. It depends on the software you are using. Over
simplifying, each character has 256 possibilities. The first 128 of
these are standard (nearly) and all computers treat them the same. The
top 128 can vary. You get Russian cyrilic characters, chinese symbols,
etc. This is why I ask people to spell out things like dollars and pounds
on rctn. In this case, your attempt at e acute is in the top 128, and came
out on my computer as some sort of figure 8. HTH.
lucretia borgia
2006-08-14 16:09:01 UTC
Permalink
Brenda Lewis <***@netscape.net>,in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by Brenda Lewis
Alt + keypad 0233 will give you é on a Windows machine. I've learned
something from my sig! But so far that's been the most interesting
thing about this thread....
The alt key codes are a thing unto themselves - see here

http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/accents/codealt.html
Pat P
2006-08-15 12:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brenda Lewis
Alt + keypad 0233 will give you é on a Windows machine. I've learned
something from my sig! But so far that's been the most interesting thing
about this thread....
Why won`t it on mine???? All I get is that annoying "Plonk"

Pat P
anne
2006-08-15 13:49:40 UTC
Permalink
Pat P said
Post by Pat P
Post by Brenda Lewis
Alt + keypad 0233 will give you é on a Windows machine. I've learned
something from my sig! But so far that's been the most interesting thing
about this thread....
Why won`t it on mine???? All I get is that annoying "Plonk"
Digging back to when I was a low level geekess, I vaguely recall that the codes
for ASCII characters aren't as universal as people think. For example, on PCs
using some variation of Windows, the way they're displayed is dependent on the
language invoked during the machine's set up.

I could be very, very wrong.
--
another Anne, add ingers to frugalf to reply
Brenda Lewis
2006-08-15 16:10:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by anne
Pat P said
Post by Pat P
Post by Brenda Lewis
Alt + keypad 0233 will give you é on a Windows machine. I've learned
something from my sig! But so far that's been the most interesting thing
about this thread....
Why won`t it on mine???? All I get is that annoying "Plonk"
Digging back to when I was a low level geekess, I vaguely recall that the codes
for ASCII characters aren't as universal as people think. For example, on PCs
using some variation of Windows, the way they're displayed is dependent on the
language invoked during the machine's set up.
I could be very, very wrong.
That's what DP-EU says. Makes sense I guess that you would want to
easily type special characters that are commonly used in your own
language and not be so picky about the availability of stuff in other
languages.
--
Brenda
Help Project Gutenberg--become a Distributed Proofreader
http://www.pgdp.net/
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-12 20:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Pat , for your kind remark .
As to Bruce,
May i invite you to see beautiful Haifa , Spend a day in my youth town
Nahariya,,, [ hard sole shoes are advised] .
I have been discussing many things with people here over the years.
What is your trouble, you are not targeted by any rocket , nore are
you flamed verbally by anybody .... so ?????
mirjam
Post by F.James Cripwell
Post by Pat P
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
Can this OT discussion be carried out on another newsgroup or via email?
It has nothing to do with needlework and clogs up my computer with
un-necessary postings.
--
Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
It`s marked OT., Bruce, precisely because it HAS nothing to do with
needlework . Thus you can
a) Not read them
b) Delete them
c) Set your newsreader to prevent them even from reaching you.
There are a lot of us most concerned about the situation, and one of our
stitching members, unfortunately, is in the thick of it.
Pat P
Well said, Pat, and every one else who commented in the same vein!!
If I had a Canadian dollar for every post like the one Bruce wrote, that I
have read on rctn, I could go to my LNS and have enough S.E.X. to last me
a year. I would put Bruce's alternatives another way.
a) Leave rctn altogether
b) Learn to killfile
c) Learn to ignore them.
I recommend c).
lucretia borgia
2006-08-12 12:56:44 UTC
Permalink
"***@spambtinternet.com" <***@spambtinternet.com>,in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
Can this OT discussion be carried out on another newsgroup or via email?
It has nothing to do with needlework and clogs up my computer with
un-necessary postings.
What sort of embroidery was it that you said you do ?
r***@spambtinternet.com
2006-08-12 13:26:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by lucretia borgia
and entertained us with
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
Can this OT discussion be carried out on another newsgroup or via email?
It has nothing to do with needlework and clogs up my computer with
un-necessary postings.
What sort of embroidery was it that you said you do ?
My wife does cross-stitch and blackwork with an occasional bit of
embroidery. She freely admits to being computer illiterate so I am
charged with acquiring information etc for her when necessary via this
very helpful newsgroup. My own hobbies include classical pipe organ
music (playing it and listening to it), hand-built 4mm finescale model
railway trackwork and computer software (I was a civil servant
specialising in bespoke computer software before I retired three years ago)
--
Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
lucretia borgia
2006-08-12 13:38:45 UTC
Permalink
"***@spambtinternet.com" <***@spambtinternet.com>,in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
Post by lucretia borgia
and entertained us with
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
Can this OT discussion be carried out on another newsgroup or via email?
It has nothing to do with needlework and clogs up my computer with
un-necessary postings.
What sort of embroidery was it that you said you do ?
My wife does cross-stitch and blackwork with an occasional bit of
embroidery. She freely admits to being computer illiterate so I am
charged with acquiring information etc for her when necessary via this
very helpful newsgroup. My own hobbies include classical pipe organ
music (playing it and listening to it), hand-built 4mm finescale model
railway trackwork and computer software (I was a civil servant
specialising in bespoke computer software before I retired three years ago)
Well if you were familiar with stitching you would know that when
stitchers gather together, there is talk. I go to a stitchin every
Tuesday, somebody needs assistance, everyone is right there, everyone
busy on their stitching, the chatting starts and it covers every
subject imaginable.

It was always thus, women (mostly) gathered and talked while their
fingers worked embellishing household linens, making clothing or
adding to it and talking.

So this is not the wrong place for OT talk, it was clearly marked OT,
just set your reader to skip OT subjects and you needn't be bothered
with it. However, don't tell this stitching circle which is the more
modern adaptation of what used to be, what it is we are going to do!
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-12 15:10:59 UTC
Permalink
The power station was blown up AFTER the kidnapping and killing of our
boys,
The tragedy on the beach, was declared bt the Palestinian autorities
themselves as being caused by some explosive materials , in use of
Palestinian militias. The girl told all that her father picked up
something.
mirjam
Post by lucretia borgia
Would that be after you bombed their power station, or before ??? Or
maybe when you bombed some parents to death on the beach in front of
their children ?
Dianne Lewandowski
2006-08-11 20:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by lucretia borgia
and entertained us with
Post by Angbug
I didn't expect a response as if you were in the military or a
government member. I just want to educate myself further from someone
who sees things first had on a daily basis. That's all.
Angela
You need a massive education if you believe that the Palestinians
should be eradicated and the Gaza Strip given to Israel!
I was wondering if Angela (and I was going to address her and then
thought I'd tag on your post because of its pertinence) was a
member/believer in the position that the end days will only come when
Israel owns all of that land, so many are trying to hurry that along.
This concerns me, because it is a position/philosophy that may have
already gotten us into trouble.

Dianne
--
Embroidery Discussions at http://www.heritageshoppe.com/forum
Angbug
2006-08-28 20:04:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dianne Lewandowski
I was wondering if Angela (and I was going to address her and then
thought I'd tag on your post because of its pertinence) was a
member/believer in the position that the end days will only come when
Israel owns all of that land, so many are trying to hurry that along.
This concerns me, because it is a position/philosophy that may have
already gotten us into trouble.
Dianne:
Let me first state that the following is my personal belief (yes as a
Christian, and a supposter of Israel):
I feel very strongly that not only are we in the last days, but the
last hours (figuratively speaking), regardless if Israel has posession
of the Gaza Strip. The Bible itself states that we know not the hour of
His return, so as far as quickening the end times... their is no need
to quicken it, read Revelation and see if some things don't sound as if
they are coming to pass, although, what I have read of Revelation, it
can be very confusing. As for my belief that the Gaza strip belongs to
Israel, I absolutely do. It was given to Israel by God (the book of
Exodus says that quite plainly), as for the idea of Israel being the
chosen nation of God, well, that would take a whole lot longer and more
time than I have at present to get into. I am sorry to take so long to
get back to you as I have had a lot going on lately.

Angela
lucretia borgia
2006-08-28 21:15:34 UTC
Permalink
"Angbug" <***@yahoo.com>,in
rec.crafts.textiles.needleworkwrote:
and entertained us with
Post by Angbug
Post by Dianne Lewandowski
I was wondering if Angela (and I was going to address her and then
thought I'd tag on your post because of its pertinence) was a
member/believer in the position that the end days will only come when
Israel owns all of that land, so many are trying to hurry that along.
This concerns me, because it is a position/philosophy that may have
already gotten us into trouble.
Let me first state that the following is my personal belief (yes as a
I feel very strongly that not only are we in the last days, but the
last hours (figuratively speaking), regardless if Israel has posession
of the Gaza Strip. The Bible itself states that we know not the hour of
His return, so as far as quickening the end times...
Well heavens, if you believe all that, you better hurry ! Something's
coming to get yah !
Dianne Lewandowski
2006-08-28 22:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Angbug
Post by Dianne Lewandowski
I was wondering if Angela (and I was going to address her and then
thought I'd tag on your post because of its pertinence) was a
member/believer in the position that the end days will only come when
Israel owns all of that land, so many are trying to hurry that along.
This concerns me, because it is a position/philosophy that may have
already gotten us into trouble.
Let me first state that the following is my personal belief (yes as a
I feel very strongly that not only are we in the last days, but the
last hours (figuratively speaking), regardless if Israel has posession
of the Gaza Strip. The Bible itself states that we know not the hour of
His return, so as far as quickening the end times... their is no need
to quicken it, read Revelation and see if some things don't sound as if
they are coming to pass, although, what I have read of Revelation, it
can be very confusing. As for my belief that the Gaza strip belongs to
Israel, I absolutely do. It was given to Israel by God (the book of
Exodus says that quite plainly), as for the idea of Israel being the
chosen nation of God, well, that would take a whole lot longer and more
time than I have at present to get into. I am sorry to take so long to
get back to you as I have had a lot going on lately.
Angela
Oh, heavens, Angela. Don't apologize for a less than timely response.
Our lives are all full. Some weeks more than it seems we can handle!

I was just reiterating what some preachers and Christians in this
country are claiming. I have no quarrel with your belief system as long
as it's not being used to stir up world affairs under the guise of
fulfilling some ancient purported prophecy.

Actually, Paul thought that Jesus would return quickly. I've read
Revelations. Like Nostradamas, it makes for interesting reading, but it
can be interpreted myriad ways. I just recently saw a documentary on
Revelations. Lots of disagreement by theologians. Some who interpret it
much like our English nursery rhymes. Hidden meanings that people of
the day understood but wouldn't dare say out loud. So it was couched in
cryptic writings.

May you find peace in your belief system.

Dianne
--
Embroidery Discussions at http://www.heritageshoppe.com/forum
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-11 20:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Sorry , Angela ,
I am sorry Angela, i was pondering about the use of the word `strip`,
but since i live in Haifa , and live in the shelter/safe place to save
my life from those Murderous Rockets [ Explosives + Metal pellets] i
thought you meant Lebanon ,,
I know you had no intention to offend, but i have no intention of
being separatred from the the general WE all of us in the same
danger.

The Gaza [ we call it AZZA just like it was called in the time of
SAMSON]. strip has exchnaged hands ever since King Solomon`s time. and
finnaly we have agreed to give it to the Palestinian Authority.

The problen as i see it , is that their leaders somehow aren`t
interested at this point in History , to deal with Mundane things like
streets , garbage etc,, the late mr Arrafat , loved being
photographed in [well ironed ] Uniform never in working clothes.

Mentaly and culturaly we indeed carry in our hearts all the sights and
smells of the whole [ not so big]country , From Mount Hermon to the
red sea and from the Mediterenean to the Mountains of Basahan & Golan
,, But Historical times changed, other people mooved in and claim it
all , Thus the Traditional way is sharing. And sharing need
discussions, needs shaking hands, and this is a bit hard to get.
Post by Angbug
would be a HUGE mistake for the U.S. to not stand by Israel.
i think our countries have a pact of sorts. But Us will do what is
good for herown interest.
Post by Angbug
I didn't expect a response as if you were in the military or a
government member. I just want to educate myself further from someone
who sees things first had on a daily basis. That's all.
I understood that, and wanted to make clear what i felt ,,,
I think Azza should settle down , it population should demand from
their leaders to stop wasting all soursce on weapons , instead
manufacture some useful things ... and provide work and better
opportunities for their people.
If they go on shooting Kassams [ a kind of rocket] on our villages
over the international borders and if they can`t keep their own yard
clean , maybe they need some help cleaning it ,,, \for years i hoped
talking can be done ,,,, i slowly loose this belief. Every time there
is a chance to better something , somebody there blows it up... how
long can this go on ?
mirjam
Post by Angbug
Angela
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-11 20:49:15 UTC
Permalink
Sorry , Angela ,
I am sorry Angela, i was pondering about the use of the word `strip`,
but since i live in Haifa , and live in the shelter/safe place to save
my life from those Murderous Rockets [ Explosives + Metal pellets] i
thought you meant Lebanon ,,
I know you had no intention to offend, but i have no intention of
being separatred from the the general WE all of us in the same
danger.

The Gaza [ we call it AZZA just like it was called in the time of
SAMSON]. strip has exchnaged hands ever since King Solomon`s time. and
finnaly we have agreed to give it to the Palestinian Authority.

The problem as i see it , is that their leaders somehow aren`t
interested at this point in History , to deal with Mundane things like
streets , garbage etc,, the late mr Arrafat , loved being
photographed in [well ironed ] Uniform never in working clothes.

Mentaly and culturaly we indeed carry in our hearts all the sights and
smells of the whole [ not so big]country , From Mount Hermon to the
red sea and from the Mediterenean to the Mountains of Basahan & Golan
,, But Historical times changed, other people mooved in and claim it
all , Thus the Traditional way is sharing. And sharing need
discussions, needs shaking hands, and this is a bit hard to get.
Post by Angbug
would be a HUGE mistake for the U.S. to not stand by Israel.
i think our countries have a pact of sorts. But Us will do what is
good for herown interest.
Post by Angbug
I didn't expect a response as if you were in the military or a
government member. I just want to educate myself further from someone
who sees things first had on a daily basis. That's all.
I understood that, and wanted to make clear what i felt ,,,
I think Azza should settle down , it population should demand from
their leaders to stop wasting all soursce on weapons , instead
manufacture some useful things ... and provide work and better
opportunities for their people.
If they go on shooting Kassams [ a kind of rocket] on our villages
over the international borders and if they can`t keep their own yard
clean , maybe they need some help cleaning it ,,, \for years i hoped
talking can be done ,,,, i slowly loose this belief. Every time there
is a chance to better something , somebody there blows it up... how
long can this go on ?
mirjam
Post by Angbug
Angela
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-06 21:50:14 UTC
Permalink
The terrorist movement hit Haifa with 8 rockets , they killed 3 people
and wounded more than 100.
Hezbulla are terrorists
mirjam
Post by Fred
According to Haaretz, Ynet, Jerusalem post and other news,
since the start of the conflict,
IDF has knocked out a total of;
0 Hezbullah fighter aircraft
0 Hezbullah anti-aircraft installations
0 Hezbullah war ships
0 Hezbullah tanks
0 Hezbullah armoured personel carriers
10 Hezbullah rocket launchers
200 - 300 Hezbullah fighters
Fred
r***@spambtinternet.com
2006-08-07 08:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
The terrorist movement hit Haifa with 8 rockets , they killed 3 people
and wounded more than 100.
Hezbulla are terrorists
mirjam
It's all relative to your own position (or belief). Like the well-known
verb declension:
"I am a freedom-fighter,
you are a guerilla,
he is a terrorist."
--
Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-07 10:29:08 UTC
Permalink
It might interest you that just now i listened to the radio , 2 of
last night rocket attack in our city will be buried in the Catholic
Cemetry , 1 in a Jewish cemetry. HAIFA is a mixed city, our
populations live together , that is one of the main reasons we were
targeted by suicide bombers as well .
as to the Hizbulla`s deffinition as TERRORIST MILITIA ,, go to the UN
resolutions. Nothing relative about it .
mirjam
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
It's all relative to your own position (or belief). Like the well-known
"I am a freedom-fighter,
you are a guerilla,
he is a terrorist."
--
Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
g***@yahoo.com
2006-08-07 18:46:49 UTC
Permalink
Mirjam, Glad to see you still posting. Haifa is definetely a very mixed
city. Has any damage been done to the Baha'i temple and gardens? They are
so beautiful and peaceful and it would be a shame if they were damaged. My
brother in Nahariya is fine, though he no longer has any window glass in
his kitchen. It is all in little shards embedded in his cabinets and table
along with pieces of the rocket. He was in his safe room with my nephew so
both survived intact but a little shaken. Five minutes ealier my nephew was
in the kitchen making lunch. My brother was in the safe room taking a nap
and my nephew had gone there to wake him up for lunch.

Keep safe.

George
Post by Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
It might interest you that just now i listened to the radio , 2 of
last night rocket attack in our city will be buried in the Catholic
Cemetry , 1 in a Jewish cemetry. HAIFA is a mixed city, our
populations live together , that is one of the main reasons we were
targeted by suicide bombers as well .
as to the Hizbulla`s deffinition as TERRORIST MILITIA ,, go to the UN
resolutions. Nothing relative about it .
mirjam
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
It's all relative to your own position (or belief). Like the well-known
"I am a freedom-fighter,
you are a guerilla,
he is a terrorist."
--
Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
--
There is no such thing as being beneath one's dignity to put in an honest
day's work. Work *is* what gives us our dignity, as well as our sense of
self-worth. "Mishna 2(a)"
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-08 10:38:56 UTC
Permalink
George ,
My heart cries for the people in Nahariya ,[it is my youth city], my
heart cries for all the people suffering, this Brutality.
I haven`t been out to look at the Bahaai temple & gardens , and as
much as my heart wories for all the beautiful trees and plants all
over the North, i worry more for people`s lives.
Tell your brother i used to live in Hertzel steet in Nahariya. Close
to Margo`a street.
We are in Haifa are less targeted , Up North is HELL , between the
falls, the outings the sirens .
May we all survive it soon .
Wish yourbrother a `Hazak Ve Ematz ` from me .
mirjam
Post by g***@yahoo.com
Mirjam, Glad to see you still posting. Haifa is definetely a very mixed
city. Has any damage been done to the Baha'i temple and gardens? They are
so beautiful and peaceful and it would be a shame if they were damaged. My
brother in Nahariya is fine, though he no longer has any window glass in
his kitchen. It is all in little shards embedded in his cabinets and table
along with pieces of the rocket. He was in his safe room with my nephew so
both survived intact but a little shaken. Five minutes ealier my nephew was
in the kitchen making lunch. My brother was in the safe room taking a nap
and my nephew had gone there to wake him up for lunch.
Keep safe.
George
Post by Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
It might interest you that just now i listened to the radio , 2 of
last night rocket attack in our city will be buried in the Catholic
Cemetry , 1 in a Jewish cemetry. HAIFA is a mixed city, our
populations live together , that is one of the main reasons we were
targeted by suicide bombers as well .
as to the Hizbulla`s deffinition as TERRORIST MILITIA ,, go to the UN
resolutions. Nothing relative about it .
mirjam
Post by r***@spambtinternet.com
It's all relative to your own position (or belief). Like the well-known
"I am a freedom-fighter,
you are a guerilla,
he is a terrorist."
--
Bruce Fletcher
btinternetDOTcomATricardian
Stronsay, Orkney
<www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont>
--
There is no such thing as being beneath one's dignity to put in an honest
day's work. Work *is* what gives us our dignity, as well as our sense of
self-worth. "Mishna 2(a)"
c***@aol.com
2006-08-10 13:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
The terrorist movement hit Haifa with 8 rockets , they killed 3 people
and wounded more than 100.
Hezbulla are terrorists
mirjam
Thank you for the reminder that humans are dying, not some meaningless
number.

Terrorists are called Terrorists because they thrive on creating
terror. They wrap themselves in a cause, but the main goal is creating
terror and demoralizing their enemies.

Stand strong Mirjam! Don't let the bastards win!

Caryn
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
2006-08-10 14:34:27 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Caryn
We are on our 30th day of being attacked , many died many wounded ,
From a country of 5.5 million people about 400.000 are refugees ,
living in tents ,parks, family and even strangers take in families.
Jews , Arabs,Druz ,, all our people get harmed.
destruction and death is the Allah this terrorists worship .
mirjam
Post by c***@aol.com
Thank you for the reminder that humans are dying, not some meaningless
number.
Terrorists are called Terrorists because they thrive on creating
terror. They wrap themselves in a cause, but the main goal is creating
terror and demoralizing their enemies.
Stand strong Mirjam! Don't let the bastards win!
Caryn
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